Roll Call.
I have a question for all of you dropping in.
What would you rather?
A lessor package for Heatley, to get him out of Ottawa
Or
He return to Ottawa?
Please reply if you have the time, I really am curious where Sens fans fall on this, a rationale would be great too. This is potentially an era defining moment, and we should all have a say. Don’t think these blogs don’t get read by those within team management…I KNOW they do.
Have your say, before it’s too late.
GN
SenSay 
July 4, 2009 at 10:28 pm
A lesser package in my opinion, this team and organization needs to move on from all the drama this situation has caused
July 4, 2009 at 10:59 pm
A lessor package… For two reasons: 1) I only want players who are committed to winning with the Senators 2) A lessor package could give us more cap flexibility which we can use now, or at the trade deadline, to improve in indirect ways.
July 5, 2009 at 12:02 am
Return to Ottawa.
Brian Murray should be fired.
Heatley signed a deal. He should stick to his word. Ottawa does not have to honour his request.
BM is ruining this team with his retarded contracts and his poor scouting.
I have not heard ‘player who shall not be named’ say publicly that he does not want to stay in Ottawa. Neither have I heard Heatley say explicitly that hes does not want to play for Clouston.
I know what his agent said, and i know how the media can twist quotations.
If you could find any excerpts of conversation between heatley/agent and anyone, i would like to see just what was said. All i can find is opinion and innuendo regarding heatley’s intentions.
What i have found is numerous sources citing BM conversations in which he slags his 2nd best player.
Having said that, my gut feeling is: Heater is a spineless sack of shit and i want him to never play in the NHL again.
But that would be unreasonable right?
Either way, it is going to be a shitty year for SENSarmy.
Thank god for Alfie….speaking of which, where does he stand in all of this? he IS our captain…
July 5, 2009 at 12:06 am
Definitely not a lesser package.
Skillwise he’s way too valuable. A contending team would give us gold at the deadline for him…especially if they were 8/9 th.
Play and gets us points here first. Imagine DET if Hossa got injured this past year. They’d give us gold for a Heatley.
July 5, 2009 at 1:23 pm
A contending team will never be able to add him at the deadline; they won’t give up any roster players (they need them to compete), and won’t have the cap room to make a play for him.
July 5, 2009 at 12:25 am
I am w/ Joel .. the package from the Oilers is quite low.. the only reason BM accepted it because 1- he wanted to move on .. 2 – He believes Penner can work on the top line because he has done it before. So to accept something like what the Rangers offered (Roszival & Company) would be unfortunate.
I believe that Heatley can stay in Ottawa and be productive.
July 5, 2009 at 5:43 am
I agree that he should not be moved except for a package that won’t handicap the franchise moving forward. The trade deadline this season sounds about right, selling at a time that teams are already primed to overpay.
Letting Heatley go for an inadequate package – like the one from Edmonton – will essentially require us to rebuild through the draft or settle for long-term mediocrity.
July 5, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I’m telling you guys, no offers will come in at the trade deadline. Why?
1) Contending teams looking for that extra scoring push probably won’t be looking to give up anything the Senators want: two good players plus a prospect. The best comparable trade was when Hossa moved at the deadline, and garnered two 3rd line players plus a prospect (would you take that kind of deal?)
2) There is much less cap flexibility at or near the trade deadline, especially for a hit as high as 7.5m.
No, the best time to trade Heatley is in the off-season, when teams have cap flexibility and can move players under contract with minimal disruption to the teams.
July 5, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Another key difference between Hossa and Heatley. Hossa was an impending UFA, and therefore had no “tagging” issues going into the next season(s).
Many teams would be able to acquire Heatley during the season for this reason, unless they already had a bunch of UFA’s.
In all likelyhood, the team(s) most interested during the deadline would be NON contending teams, looking to make an early upgrade, and would likely offer up impending UFA’s, thinking Heatley would be a bigger return than they would get from contending teams, who, as Woozle said, are looking to add, not subtract.
GN
July 5, 2009 at 9:16 am
Return to Ottawa.
With it being an Olympic year, Danny has no choice but to play well. Worse case scenario it will indirectly increase his market once value again.
Slightly OT, what’s with the fan’s grief regarding BM? 1) Exactly how was he supposed to handle the Heatley situation any differently? I applaud him for looking after the team’s interest first. 2) The market spoke regarding Neil’s value so while many feel it was overpayment (myself included), clearly 3-4 other GMs thought differently. 3) BM got Campoli, Kuba, and Picard for Mezaro who I thought was wayyyy overrated. 4) For Eaves & Corvo, he got Commodor and Stillman, which if you think about it we wouldn’t have even made the playoffs in 2008-09 if not for Stillman’s points – so I think it was a respectable short-term gain. 5) And BM’s drafting looks to be quite solid. IMO, he deserves to stick around.
July 5, 2009 at 10:02 am
Keep him. Boo the sh1t whenever he touches the puck. Get a king’s ransom for him at the trade deadline.
July 5, 2009 at 10:21 am
Take the package that gives us as much cap flexibility as possible, even if it is less than fair value.
First, this guy has burned his bridge here, even if it is his agent doing the detonation. This is the worst damage control I’ve seen.
Second, this is a blessing in disguise as far as the cap is concerned. We turned ourselves into the TB Lightning with a top heavy payroll. This is our chance to fix it!
The problem I have with the Penner deal, though, is that he’s signed for three more years. Find a package (I make it sound easy like GMs are calling endlessly) where you get some good prospects and a bad contract that ends this year.
But most definitely, move him this summer for whatever we can get. Fix this payroll.
July 5, 2009 at 10:37 am
I’d take a ‘lesser’ package so that we can all move on, provided it includes SOME semi-desirable top-6 forward (Cheechoo, Penner, etc) and at least some solid option for the future, a 1st/prospect. I would NOT take a pure salary dump like Zherdev+Roszival. Or Marleau, barf.
Forcing Heatley to play here until the deadline would definitely be our best shot to get good return, but nevermind Heatley… I don’t think *I* could wait that long for a resolution.
By the way, thanks for the frequent posts throughout this ordeal!
July 5, 2009 at 10:32 am
GREAT stuff.
I love hearing all the opinion.
Some I agree with, some I dont…surprise, surprise. How boring if we all agreed on everything.
Some counter-points;
On B.M. – No GM is perfect, but, to be fair, I like B.M., so obviously I support most of his moves. That being said, no doubt something happened prior to the “Delusional One” allowing his Cabal to speak publicly about wanting a trade. Did Murray refuse to move him? Did he offer them a a deal they couldn’t accept? Did he say he was unmoveable, & they didn’t believe him? I don’t know, but, it would have been best to deal with this all behind closed doors.
On T.B. vs OTT – This comparison, in my opinion, is un-fair. Unlike OTT, TB had an internal cap, that made their big contracts more restrictive than those on OTT. To me, OTT was more a victim of 5-8 yrs of poor drafting, and drafting position, than their cap structure. Ideally, moving Dany, evenif for only one top 6, and then a package of solid to top tier prospects, adresses both the short & long term issues.
Trade Him For Cap Space – I can’t argue with this, but, you also can’t argue that building a team via signings, or trades, is virtually impossible, especially if you want to either keep decent assets, or not pay peak prices. So, as a strategic move, in advance of a declining salary cap, allowing the team to adjust for this change in advance, then I agree, but as a means of imroving the club by using the cap space to gain new assets…that seems too much to expect any GM to accomplish.
Please keep it up readers, I know there are a lot more of you out there, join us with your voice, that’s what makes this medium vibrant…participation.
We may disagree, but that’s fine, nobody here, certainly myself included, knows the truth, and is always right…we’re all just having fun.
GN
July 5, 2009 at 12:10 pm
As for Heatley, it’s time for Melnyk to use the trump card he has. Tell Heatley, accept the Edmonton trade or the Sens suspend you for the season, thus eliminating him from playing in the Olympics. Hockey wise it’s not a great move by the Sens, but it would send a message to Heatley that Melnyk is not goiing to be bullied. Heatley may have made a lot of cash, but Melnyk has a whole lot more.
July 5, 2009 at 3:56 pm
pez, unfortunately, until Heatley withholds his services, they cannot suspend him. The interesting issue will be the 4M, should Heatley not report. At that point, the Sens can clearly display financial damages, and would be in a very strong position to sue for the rerun of these funds. If Heatley had any integrity at all, he’d put these funds into escrow pending his reporting to am NHL camp.
GN
July 5, 2009 at 8:40 pm
If they can’t suspend them then make him the 13th forward up in the press box. Make things as uncomfortable as possible.
Either way, I don’t want Heatley back in Ottawa, period.
July 6, 2009 at 9:42 am
That’s fair.
I disagree, but, no doubt I can see te merits of your view, and in some ways, even think it may be the more”contsructive” of the two.
GN
July 5, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Pez .. I think Ottawa is playing clean .. They have a contract and they expect him in camp period. So Heatley and co .. are delusional if they think BM is working the phones. The man is probably on vacation till mid August. Any concession will have to come from Heatley and he has two choices ..
July 5, 2009 at 1:21 pm
A lessor package for Heatley, to get him out of Ottawa.
I think this option will be best for the Ottawa Senators. The team needs to win, and for that every member of the team and coaching staff must be focussed on playing hard every game. Cory Clouston cannot afford to be dealing with the demands of Dany Heatley on a day to day basis (where & how he plays). This may undermine Clouston’s ability to guide the team.
Also the pressing need for scoring depth remains un-addressed. A lesser return of at least one promising scoring forward plus one prospect should be enough, especially if they take one of our capable defense back (Picard, Schubert, Smith) that just happen to be surplus to requirements. This may not be fair value for a player of Heatley’s production, but it probably is fair value for a player with Heatley’s baggage. It’ll take a strong coach to get the best out of him while not creating any other problems within the club. I think the club should take any such offer and move on. Use any available space to pursue either mid level UFAs or make an offer for a good RFA (possibly via trades).
I tried to come up with an example featuring the Sharks, but can’t see them giving up what many people are proposing (Vlasic, Clowe ++). Maybe something like Marleau + Couture + 2nd round 2010 for Heatley + Smith/Schubert/Picard. That allows us to sign one more top 6 forward, or have Ilya Zubov make the Sens and play in the top 6.
July 5, 2009 at 2:55 pm
I think Murray needs to play it cool now – essentially not work the phones and if a call comes in fine, work it then. The other GMs know what he wants and it will entail 2 or 3 players. If they want a gifted scorer or shakeup they’ll do it. Else leave it as is – if he shows at camp play him as normal and if not well he doesn’t get paid.
At what point though is he in breach of contract? These pro contacts seem somewhat void of law. If he doesn’t show up to camp, take legal action to get the 4M back. At some point if the contract becomes null and void the next team to hire him before this contact would have expired should owe the Senators compensation (players picks etc) . That would virtually ensure he doesn’t play anywhere until 2014. You shouldn’t be able to back out of a contract like this without a heavy penalty even if it Skullf@(ks your career, which it may end up doing.
Dany WTF have you started? “WTF were you thinking?”
If he is on the sidelines I hope the Sens come out flying and win like MFers. Nothing would be sweeter than have a confident, gelling bunch make the playoffs and show they can contend, with Heater at home on the couch, wishing he’d kept his mouth shut, showed up for work and played in the sandbox by the rules like a good little boy.
July 5, 2009 at 4:10 pm
“Breach” is difficult to define, as typically it is tied to “damages”.
With the 4M payment, the damages are easy to show, but damages in the form of lost income due to fan reaction, or poor team performance as a result of bad chemistry, or a lack of talent, are harder to quantify.
Typically, these matters do not enter into the courts as the results can take horrendously long to acheive, and the cost, both in real, and PR terms can often outweigh the return.
Most commonly it turns into a “suspension” of payments, as happened with Yashin. The bad news for Heatley in this scenario is that not only does he lose the income for a year, he doesn’t lose the time off of his contract. In other words, if he holds out for a year, that is one year playing career gone (earning potential), but, his contractual agreement is still for the original remaining term…5 yrs, not 4.
It’s a no win for a player with a finite career. For a team, with a theoretical infinite life span, it really is only a one year loss (in the talent and “draw” the player was anticipated to provide), particularly if they win the PR battle, and ingratiate themselves to their fans.
Heatley has put himself into terrible postion, should the Sens not back down.
GN.
July 6, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Keep him until the fair deals come in. It may take until the trade deadline in 2010 (gulp) but we need fair return for this guy and we can’t let him cripple the Sens organization by getting nothing in return.